Curse

Trinity Fire Angel · Jun 25, 2008, 02:44 AM // 02:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Selket

They were 4.5k two weeks ago.

Ups.

And if you think money doesn't matter why do you justify that shadow form shouldn't be nerfed because people would make money off of the nerf?

What.

oki. sure. then in the last 2 weeks the price hasn;t gone down too much.

in effect i have argued myself out of favour of the buff and for and against a nerf. i have realised that buffing or nerfing doesn;t really matter at all. really... i am more interested in the motives and reasons behind why people want nerfs or not.

@ Arkantos. Money doesn;t matter to me. it matters to others and people in the community might be trying to scam a nerf to protect their wealth. it;s called price fixing and insider trading in the real world and people go to gaol for trying to artificially change the price of stocks in the stockmarket in the real world.

i am just saying it;s not fair for those who didn;t profit off this recent change for those who wish to farm ectos. ipso facto it;s also not fair for those who horded vast amounts of ectos to become rich. but then again we people here in australia have a tall poppy syndrome... we like to cut down the high flyers and favour the battlers. even the playing field. rob from the rich and give to the poor.

that's just how we are. high taxes for rich people and low taxes for poor people. unemployment benefits and social payouts and free medical services for low income families. no one should be homeless or have lesser opportunity. in saying that, we should all have the opportunity to farm ectos or farm noob pve mobs with a basic build called ursan or stomp thru elite areas with 3 necros.

Dark Paladin X · Jun 25, 2008, 03:55 AM // 03:55

Someone did offer and alternative of including new weapons and armor that uses ectos. That, IMO, would be the best choice.

strcpy · Jun 25, 2008, 04:21 AM // 04:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

You might want to look at my sign up date and I was around probably before you as I beta tested it in 2/19/05.There is a good thread on that old build I got saved.I only got 1 ecto to my name and I am not rich either.

Then your memory and ability to generally search threads is horrid. Don't know of were else I may have come to that conclusion but the following didn't help.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

Don't start this with me Tyla as I see you are 06 have have the same title as me

And yet you said the following

Quote:

I tried this with my Ele with 16 in Earth and couldn't keep it up using Glyph of Swiftness.I can't view that as possibly FF won't let me.I edit my posts.

I do about 3 Myst Vaettir runs a day that would say you are grossly incorrect and Tyla is correct. See http://www.pvxwiki.com/wiki/Build:E/Me_Glacial_Solo_HM - you will note that Arcane Echo is for damage spells and you keep Obs Flesh up all the time with the glyph and a 20% enchant mod. It's really a very easy build to run - much easier than the SF sin. As of right now it is my favorite farming run.

The game has had +20% enchant items for quite a long time, as someone who has been around since beta's I would assume you know that. But oh well, I guess I would be wrong there.

VendingMachine · Jun 25, 2008, 04:29 AM // 04:29

Just make the spawn of Obsidian Behemoths always blocking the way into Chaos Planes.

Yichi · Jun 25, 2008, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Just remove assassins

lots of problems solved.

( borrowing a line from Johnny Storm: "FLAME ON!" )

Ate of DK · Jun 25, 2008, 05:18 AM // 05:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by VendingMachine

Just make the spawn of Obsidian Behemoths always blocking the way into Chaos Planes.

Read some posts before posting. This has allready been suggested and is easy to pass by. What's something that Assassins can do? Yes, they can shadow step and you really don't need dash on your bar and I can simply replace it for deadly charge which teleports you behind the selected opponent.

Age · Jun 25, 2008, 05:39 AM // 05:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

Then your memory and ability to generally search threads is horrid. Don't know of were else I may have come to that conclusion but the following didn't help.

You don't beleive hey well here is proof if you bothered to search it for yourself.http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=32980

There it is as I said E/Mes Obsid Flesh build and couldn't keep it up it doesn't have Archane Echo in it not the one a Friend in my Alliance sent to me.He has done the whole entire UW.

I didn't have to search for that thead as I have it subsrcibed and ever since that nerf jelly has never 55ed agian and I met jellly to one of the founders of the build.This is what brought me on to The Guru as well.

Courage! · Jun 25, 2008, 06:34 AM // 06:34

SF IS THE ONLY reason ectos are dropping in price i say kill it all together

strcpy · Jun 25, 2008, 06:46 AM // 06:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

You don't beleive hey well here is proof if you bothered to search it for yourself.http://www.guildwarsguru.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=32980

I see no proof that it was nerfed because of bot usage - if that was the requirement that it was terrible. The run itself was nerfed because it caused massive inflation and there was a few smaller nerfs to some of the skills for PvP. I know who posted the build first and was around the game then (and I know of a few who had screens of them using the build before this post too).

Quote:

There it is as I said E/Mes Obsid Flesh build and couldn't keep it up it doesn't have Archane Echo in it not the one a Friend in my Alliance sent to me.He has done the whole entire UW.

What? That really doesn't make much sense. You friends builds doesn't use AE, you couldn't get it to work, and he has completed UW (I assume that he used that build that doesn't work to do it?).

The build you have doesn't have AE in it - OK great, AE isn't used to keep Obsidian Flesh up, only the glyph is. AE is used to keep sliver armor up as long as possible or to echo one the AoE damage spells. You can keep Obsidian Flesh up 100% of the time with Glyph of Swiftness and a 20% enchant mod. At 16 earth it has a 21 second duration, with +20% it is at 25.2 seconds. Glyph of Swiftness has a 25% faster recharge and OF has a natural recharge of 30 seconds - adjusted that becomes 22.5 seconds (not sure which way it rounds time so I included the decimals). Therefore you have a 2-3 second window to recast a one second skill - quite doable even for a bad player. In fact you really only need a 12% enchant mod to get to a 23.5 second duration.

Do you want to argue that your time in game makes the basic mathematics change? That you made fun of people who said they can do it and used your join date and number of posts to tell them they were wrong is amusing.

Quote:

I didn't have to search for that thead as I have it subsrcibed and ever since that nerf jelly has never 55ed agian and I met jellly to one of the founders of the build.This is what brought me on to The Guru as well.

Ok, great - he hasn't 55'd since. Not really sure how this strengthens your assertion that the 55 build was nerfed due to botting though. Prices for everything that was player market controlled (by this time the traders were in the game) was so high that a player that didn't farm the UW couldn't afford even plain armor or minor runes - they had to be farmed if used at all. Anet had issues with Prot Bond in PvP too so they nerfed it first. When that didn't work (the prot spirit 55's kept on trucking) they added the dying nightmares and that mostly did the job (the job being to stop the inflation). There were also some other minor 55'ing skill nerfs that it wasn't clear if it was a farming or PvP nerf. Do a search for "nerf prot bond" and start at the last pages - it is amusing to read nowadays including the prices for plain items.

thoth_au · Jun 25, 2008, 06:57 AM // 06:57

Can somebody explain to me why ecto prices dropping is a bad thing?

Instead of costing 100k + 20e it costs 100k + 40e

This really only affects those who bought up big ecto volumes for 5k+ and hoarded them all and now want to sell.

There is no doubt that the SF build is powerful now, but he reason to nerf or not to nerf shouldnt be about ecto price...the base price of items should remain relatively unchanged with the amount of ecto reflecting their current value.

Maybe obs armour needs to be nerfed so that it needs a harder farmed ingredient than ectos

I think the GW1 economy is on the downward spiral to GW2 anyway, and nerfing SF or UW to readjust ecto pricing just seems a waste of time now....let people have their fun and last hoorah before GW2.

As long as SF doesnt affect PvP well it doesnt matter. If people think it is too powerful in PvE then they can choose a different build to challenge themselves. But dont whinge about ecto prices as the choice is there to use the SF build or not.

You Look Grim · Jun 25, 2008, 07:12 AM // 07:12

Neither. I haven't farmed UW enough yet, maybe once I get more ectos. Than you can spike the prices up for all I care.

Selket · Jun 25, 2008, 07:15 AM // 07:15

Go to bed sweetie, you know not what you say.

Squawkers · Jun 25, 2008, 07:23 AM // 07:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by thoth_au

Can somebody explain to me why ecto prices dropping is a bad thing?

Instead of costing 100k + 20e it costs 100k + 40e

This really only affects those who bought up big ecto volumes for 5k+ and hoarded them all and now want to sell.

There is no doubt that the SF build is powerful now, but he reason to nerf or not to nerf shouldnt be about ecto price...the base price of items should remain relatively unchanged with the amount of ecto reflecting their current value.

Maybe obs armour needs to be nerfed so that it needs a harder farmed ingredient than ectos

I think the GW1 economy is on the downward spiral to GW2 anyway, and nerfing SF or UW to readjust ecto pricing just seems a waste of time now....let people have their fun and last hoorah before GW2.

As long as SF doesnt affect PvP well it doesnt matter. If people think it is too powerful in PvE then they can choose a different build to challenge themselves. But dont whinge about ecto prices as the choice is there to use the SF build or not.

Ecto prices do matter. They have been used in trades as an alternative to money forever. Ectos have always flunctuated in prices. But this sudden drop doesn't look like it will go away unless something is done. This ecto price drop screws all of the "rich" people of guild wars and let's the community as a whole catch up.

As someone who worked their butt off to get a mere 100k after a month, I get frustrated when a build like this becomes exploited to the point that people can get what I worked hard for in much less time doing the same thing over and over.

To solve all of these problems, I think the favor of the gods should be brought back to what it previously was. This would stabilize the price of the ectos for the most part. People would care more about HoH and who was playing. I remember the good ole days when you would see some guild get America one away from favor and everyone would rush to ToA and wait. That's how it should be. If people are that desperate to get in, scrolls won't be out of their price range (the price of those would go up of course).

SF definately needs a nerf as well. Everyone talks about reducing the time on it...but I think it would be better to just make SF a form like the dervish forms. Make it disabled for the 60 second duration no matter what. The skill would be exactly what it was meant to be and would be perfect right there. The skill isn't literally a form I know. But you could either make it "disabled for 60 seconds" or find some other way to kill the ability to abuse it.

So to some all of this up ~ bring back the old 'favor of the gods' system and change SF to "disabled for 60 seconds".

Ate of DK · Jun 25, 2008, 07:51 AM // 07:51

Correct me if I'm wrong, don't the merchant prices only decrease/increase when people sell/buy ecto's?

If that is true then people are selling them a lot and are very content with those 3,5-4K they get for it.

Edit: The merchant offers me 3,4K for an ecto.

Abnaxus · Jun 25, 2008, 07:56 AM // 07:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Squawkers

As someone who worked their butt off to get a mere 100k after a month, I get frustrated when a build like this becomes exploited to the point that people can get what I worked hard for in much less time doing the same thing over and over.

Hey, this is a videogame, you get frustrated for a videogame? You have problems, big problems ...
You worked hard? Worked? WTF? And for what, for 100k or some pink pixels? Do you really think you "have" something in a videogame?
I play the game for fun, work is something I do in my office, where I get paid with real money.

This is not specifically direct to you, but in general to all those who have lost any common sense and think that a videogame is real life.

Now speaking about the videogame, SF is very very very very very very good for the game, ectos are something needed to get some armors, well more people will be able to enjoy this aspect of the game, provided they have enough patience to make a sin and kill some monsters for several hours.

I have a sin and also a superior rune, but I never farm because it's boring and not enjoyable to me. But for others it can be, so let them enjoy.

EVERY update that cuts the time to get a specific goal is simply GREAT.
Games MUST NOT BE ADDICTIVE.

If the Fow armor required 1 month of farming before SF update, and now it requires 10 days, well this is highly welcome, players will achieve their goal, enjoy for some days, then forget and move on, instead of being frustrated and addicted.

It's highly IMMORAL to create targets and goals that can induce addiction and frustration in videogame players.

Games must give fun, and not increase the psycological problems that some people already have.

Squalus the Ipno · Jun 25, 2008, 08:11 AM // 08:11

why nerf SF and chaos plain????
People before this buy money trough internet cause really difficoult to farm money and now you can't otherwise you're account can be banned.
Thanks to Anet i got my first fow in 3 years of game otherwise.....
Stop to question about nerf sf or chaos plain think not necessary. Anet know what to do. Enjoy SF and chaos plain!

Squawkers · Jun 25, 2008, 08:24 AM // 08:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Abnaxus

Hey, this is a videogame, you get frustrated for a videogame? You have problems, big problems ...
You worked hard? Worked? WTF? And for what, for 100k or some pink pixels? Do you really think you "have" something in a videogame?
I play the game for fun, work is something I do in my office, where I get paid with real money.

This is not specifically direct to you, but in general to all those who have lost any common sense and think that a videogame is real life.

Now speaking about the videogame, SF is very very very very very very good for the game, ectos are something needed to get some armors, well more people will be able to enjoy this aspect of the game, provided they have enough patience to make a sin and kill some monsters for several hours.

I have a sin and also a superior rune, but I never farm because it's boring and not enjoyable to me. But for others it can be, so let them enjoy.

EVERY update that cuts the time to get a specific goal is simply GREAT.
Games MUST NOT BE ADDICTIVE.

If the Fow armor required 1 month of farming before SF update, and now it requires 10 days, well this is highly welcome, players will achieve their goal, enjoy for some days, then forget and move on, instead of being frustrated and addicted.

It's highly IMMORAL to create targets and goals that can induce addiction and frustration in videogame players.

Games must give fun, and not increase the psycological problems that some people already have.

I don't know what's gotten you all hyped up...

Everyone will get frustrated at some point while they are playing a game. You don't get frustrated losing at Tetris?

I think you missed my point when I said I "worked my butt off". I meant I played the game without doing any farms, the way it should be played. I did quests and missions and while doing those got enough money from drops and such. This took some time I'll admit but I was lucky enough to find some rare items to put me up quite a few k's. Letting someone abuse something like this ruins the "fair" aspect of the game because you either join them in it or miss out.

I have always been against farming builds and always will. Maybe that's just because I can't stand the fact you can do some mindless build over and over and be rewarded for it while someone else has to get 8 people organized and try hard to do the exact thing while being rewarded less.

Playing UW with 8 people can be fun as well. Just because the SF build is "fun" doesn't mean it should be left alone.

Making a game so easy to accomplish something that has seemed extremely impossible in the past can be extremely addictive as well. Why do you think people are farming so much? They are now getting within range of their "obby armor" and they are 'addicted'/determined to get it.

ihavealife · Jun 25, 2008, 08:37 AM // 08:37

DON'T NERF!!! ITS BLASPHEMY!!! ANet should have thought of all the possibilities first, then left it forever.

doudou_steve · Jun 25, 2008, 02:03 PM // 14:03

why people care so much about VIRTUAL money?

Tyla · Jun 25, 2008, 02:23 PM // 14:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

I would know that in an instant and I didn't do my posting here I did it with most of the other beta testers and Alpha testers.I know what happened in beta and what skills were like.Don't start this with me Tyla as I see you are 06 have have the same title as me I wonder how that cam about oh to much posting as I read 6 or 8 posts in a thread like the one Ping your build.

Post counts matter? Join date matters?

Just because you came to the game earlier than me doesn't mean you can have more information than me on the game itself. I've seen plenty of 3 year players who are absolutely horrible at the game, both in player skill and in their knowledge of the game. Stop acting like this matters.

Quote:

I tried this with my Ele with 16 in Earth and couldn't keep it up using Glyph of Swiftness.I can't view that as possibly FF won't let me.I edit my posts.

You're kidding right? I know plenty of farmers who take part in the usage of perma Obsidian Flesh, myself included.

I believe Glyph of Swiftness on Obsidian Flesh = 22.5 recharge, and with an enchanting weapon.

Obs Flesh at 16 attribute is 21 duration, with an enchanting weapon it's 25.2 seconds in duration. Read notes here aswell.

As for editting posts, what do you mean? I edit my posts after someone replies to my post? /Facepalm